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Tempering valves

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robbo

#15
October 01, 2013, 08:56:19 PM
Hi guys, yes Grant there are more ways to kill a cat! That aside I'm sure that no one was `bored` with your post. Tempering valves are very useful but when you get into a situation where you have gone to replace an element in an old cylinder but the cylinder is cracked and leaks when the element is taken out because of age and red lead sealant, the cold feed and hot outlet connections are galv pipes with no disconnection points,,, ugh.  So Mr. Customer what do you want me to do? We have two solutions (1) cut the pipes, take out the cylinder and have it repaired; an old 25gal unit is not worth repairing. (2)Install a new cyl and tell customer that we now need a builder to alter the cupboard and also we have to install a tempering valve to comply with the building act which will add best part of $500 to on top of everything else. You can see how this kind of job goes from a relative inexpensive one to an all out over the top need for a second mortgage; the customer is not happy and of course blames the plumber.
In an older house which has got along nicely for many years without a tempering valve and no problems (even with a wet back heating the water) I think that there should be a case for `like for like` to maintain what was there and keep the cost to a reasonable level,cheers   
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ptopnz

#16
October 02, 2013, 08:16:15 AM
Continuing on the topic of tempering valves, I had a call from the PGDB last week suggesting that I might like to re-look at a resent installation I did. We upgraded a customer from low to mains pressure and screwed the tempering valve straight into the top of the cylinder. The tempering valve was an RMC, we have been told by RMC verbally and in writing that they actually recommend screwing the tempering valve into the cylinder. I explained this to the board with supporting documentation but they were not able to comment and suggested I talk to Department of Building and Housing. AS3500 does not seem to mention tempering valves only Thermostatic mixers, so that leads you back to G12 which does clearly say 1m of copper. So who is correct the manufacture or the codes?

Copied from email from RMC

"G12/VM1 refers to satifying the performance of G12 if it complies with AS/NZS3500.4.

AS/NZ 3500.4, 3.3, (a). refers to the installation of the valve in accordance with manufacturers installation instructions.

I have also included a page from our installations instructions quoting 'It is recommended the valve be installed as close as possible to the hot water system, however it may be fitted anywhere on the hot water supply line if necessary.'

Installing the valve directly into the HWC works in accordance with our installation instructions, which then complies with AS3500.4, AS 3500.4 then cross references to compliance with G12."
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wombles

#17
October 02, 2013, 08:35:53 AM
Could it be that the Technical advisors at the PGDB are not attending the CPD courses that would have kept them up to date with the latest products and techniques? Pretty sure RMC have suggested this for at least 5 years, I will fish out a letter from them and let you know.
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robbo

#18
October 02, 2013, 10:21:21 AM
Hi guys, ptopnz how did the board get involved? Seems like they were informed instead of talking to you if someone thought that there was a problem.
...
Thinking on this legionella versus temp disscussion I am thinking that it would be better to install the tempering valve under the floor or in the ceiling space closer to the bathroom that way it would`nt involve altering the cylinder pipework, especially after an upgrade to the bathroom, of course it would be more difficult to adjust or replace but you can`t have it all ways,what do others think,cheers
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ptopnz

#19
October 02, 2013, 10:26:49 AM
The board are not involved, it was as he said "a courtesy call and perhaps I would like to look at the installation and get back to my customer"
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gordyplum

#20
October 13, 2013, 08:39:55 PM
hi, ii have a letter/ producer statement from rmc with the reccomendation that tempering valves be fitted straight to hwc outlet. I'm sure if you give them a call they will provide one to you.
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bowtieboy

#21
October 16, 2013, 08:45:55 PM
that's a ditto from me as well, rmc recommended there valve is installed as close as possible to the heat to maintain a constant thermostatic operation.
regards 
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I believe in doing a job once and right. !
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